Turn on the television and you’re bound to see a debate concerning universal healthcare in the US and whether we should have it. In my opinion if you even have to ask this question you need to put down your drink, put away the bong and spit the LSD back out of your mouth that is making you out of your fucking mind.
Now seriously speaking beyond the fact that on every level it could never work effectively in this country lets go over a few points on how bad this could be.
The first point would have to be the big brother and big government factor. We spend our entire lives carrying the burden of the “man” on our backs, bitch about things like the Patriot Act that encroach on our rights, complain that the government interferes too much already and now we want to hand over the reigns of our healthcare to them? Is it because they’ve already been in the healthcare business for a better part of the last century and failed miserably at it? The Veteran’s hospitals are shameful, the welfare system is the biggest failure our government could and have ever offered. We still even treat the Native Americans through their programs like shit. How about government run clinics, been to one of those lately?
Another point is taking the capitalism out of the health industry destroys the quality of care we get. Hate it all you want but the profits these drug companies make goes towards the production and research behind new techniques and medicines. Much of it is wasted to experiments that were over expensive and didn’t work but some of its findings made the medicine that saves our lives. The companies that play this game play it with our money and against each other all striving to give us the very best products ensuring we always buy more. We the consumer fund them and in turn they give us a tangible product that we have a choice to buy or not buy. But the government controlling the healthcare system doesn’t work that way. The government would force us to choose one of three packages like they always do and that’s that. They would then have the leverage on the big drug companies to limit the monies going back to them. The government would have the ability to drum up fear in an American public with smoke screens like the “Swine Flu” and make companies produce more medicines to treat just that. When the government is involved in making those kinds of decisions the drug companies lose their ambition to be creative in treating many other issues. Companies lose their ability to control their own production and even worse their research. Obviously with this retarded amount of money the current Administration is spending the government will have a “great” grant and loan program that we'll pay more for and the drug companies can take advantage of. Once those companies have latched on the government can have one more control over them and their finances. If you don’t believe that to be true ask GM how they lost their CEO and they’re still going to file for bankruptcy protection.
Not to mention the government controlling the healthcare system stifles physicians and surgeons and significantly reduces their compensation. Again check your local VA hospital and see what that’s looking like. With government run healthcare you’ll not see any pioneers as you may see today. With their fancy offices and ridiculously expensive cutting edge equipment they are on the forefront of medicine at a level we see and feel as the capitalist consumer. Everyone seems to forget the government grows and limits us more and more each time it does. The government will lowball ALL doctors every chance they get until ultimately they take the incentive away to even be in the profession in the first place. A buzz topic always seems to be “the best Physicians are from foreign countries so they must have a great health system”. What is always forgotten when that is said is, “but all those best doctors come and work here”. They’re the best in their field and they’ve come to the United States for what? Could it be our charming personalities? No, it’s the money. We the consumers, with our Baskin and Robbins assortment of health insurance policies, pay good money for what we’re getting done. They love us for it and we love them for fixing us… done.
In England where the healthcare system is run through the government someone gravely ill could potentially wait weeks for aid while the bureaucracy finds everyway to rear it’s ugly red taped head. Here in the States you can walk into a hospital or immediate care center with no insurance card and a splinter. You’ll leave with a bill but with every exam under the sun. There are many horrible instances we have in the hospitals too where people aren’t getting the care they deserve, unfortunately they’re usually veterans and welfare recipients. Odd huh? We the free American and the professional consumer do what we want when we want, when the government gets involved we get more deadlines and more orders coupled with more restrictions and more privacy invasion.
Oh but there is the argument of those without health insurance and how it’s their civil right to be taken care of. EXCUSE YOU!? Most of the people in this country who don’t have insurance are either illegal or crack heads. I’m supposed to feel bad they’re not being paid for in a health system that struggles in part because of them and the programs they come attached to? Fuck them and the horse they rode in on. My family got here off a boat and they stood on the damned line to get in. If you jump that line and get sick now that you’re here that’s karma and tough shit. If you went through life and never had a job, preferred drugs over food and now you are homeless with no health care… fuck you too. There is no reason that I should feel obligated to help you through my taxes. You should have stepped up and did the right thing. Fortunately for fuck-ups like you, the illegals, and God forbid those people that actually really need assistance, the mentally handicapped and abandoned have all kinds of charity and privately funded aid to help you in getting the care you need, a roof over your head and some clothes on your back. They’ll feed you, educate you and start teaching you that in America you have a 95% chance of having affordable health insurance if you meet one requirement… get a job. If you’re the other 5% working without any you have an assortment of programs to help. If you’re this supposed 23% of “American’s” without health insurance you’re generally beyond any help I’m willing to give but still you have many private foundations that will aid you in anything you need. However, your health should not be someone else’s financial burden. The most you should get from us is a buck on the street corner in a tin can before you get up and get what’s on the silver platter this country already affords every one of it’s citizens.
There are far too many reasons on why universal healthcare in America is such a ridiculous idea but here is just a start that has already tired me out. The government tangles every web it weaves and truly my fear is to now say we’d like them to control our health.
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I don't have time for a full comment Lion but let me ask you this before I look into it. The numbers you've provided of "uninsured", how many of them are already in the system for government insurance and aid. Then how many of them are being funded by private businesses? When you find that number out you'll see the real number of uninsured in this country.
Children are children and are innocents I agree but I assure you they have all kinds of programs to ensure they'll be taken care of.
OK I'm back, now that I had to go earn a living and ensure my insurance is funded. ;) The 8 million kids I would insure. My preference would still let it be a privatized business(s) that held their policies rather than the government but if they just have to offer health care to someone it should be them. I would also ensure that all of the mentally handicapped where taken care of as well. Again, preferably only by private business. As someone that worked in the VA Hospitals and also spent two summers working for a state run "Developmental Center" they're horrid. If the government has to fund both systems for the kids and the challenged they’ll need HUGE overhauls.
Everyone else, fuck them. Seriously if you're here and you shouldn't be... tough. If you fucked up your entire life with every opportunity in the world afforded to you... tough. If you didn't make enough money in your job and you can't afford your insurance... tough. That last one is going to ruffle feathers and this is how I see it. Cobra subsidizes insurance for people that are employed or even were once employed. They just sent me a letter that said they'll insure me for about 160 bucks a month just because I once had a job at another dealership. What single working person can't afford that? And if they can't they need to re evaluate how they're spending the money they make. Or, get up and move to a place that can support the lifestyle they need.
People born and raised in this country or people that have come legally into this country have flourished each and every time they've simply put their minds to it. Do yourself a favor by reading some articles and columns written by Thomas Sowell. I say favor because he's brilliant a dude. Honestly it's amazing the insight that he has. The least special thing about him is that he is a Black man who grew up in a hugely racist South, became a dropout of the NYC school system due to finance and still overcame every obstacle to be one of the greatest American's we could EVER offer. Off topic I know but still, he's awesome and he's a big reason that I believe we ALL have the opportunity and the government shouldn't help us with anything. They're just not good at it. You want your health care system to be managed by the Legislative branch. Look at it that way because that’s what you're asking for. Then compare it to what could be if they let us keep our money to spend how we feel fit. As far as helping people out I don't think it's the governments problem. If a man is on the side of the road sick and needs help it's up to me as a moral person to help him at that moment. It's not up to my government to steal the money I work to earn to give to ailing person through some convoluted chain of red tape. Every dollar stolen from me produces 1 cent given to him with the intent to treat him at sub par levels at best. WTF?
It boggles me that the spending we do through the government doesn't blow your mind out of your head as it does mine. Not just you but anyone that sees their money wasting and still wants more from a government proven to not know how to manage. You're the prime example of who should be mad. Look into this for yourself. Check to see how much you paid in taxes last year. Federal and State, add them up then deduct your refund and look at what you paid. Then look at what you paid for the Union you belong to. Add it all to your bottom line and then ask yourself what you got for it. What did the government give you for your money? What did the Union give you for your money? If you as an American made a modest 40k last year you probably paid about 9k in taxes after your refund. If the government didn't take that money from you what could you have bought? Perhaps you may have found a few hundred bucks to donate to a few causes you love through out the year. Maybe you'd have the money to go out and donate to your school for better supplies. How about some hungry kids, I bet that 9k would have a lot of change to feed them. Show me a good cause friend and I'll show you a Congressman that fucked it up for all of us. The government promises us a retirement package they already admit to will be bankrupt very soon, they promise us care when you say yourself it's just gotten worse over the past two decades as we dump more and more money into it and now they should just take over the entire system while WE rethink about our love of money? No way man, I can't ever agree with that.
Money for me is not a glamorous thing, it's an employee. It works for me and I only work to hire more of them. I make a dollar it makes interest and it hires more dollars. The more of them I have the bigger I can grow the business of me. It's not because I'm greedy or flashy but it's because the bigger I grow my company of me the better buffer I have to protect myself from the government that would love to mooch me to death and now even after death. Because I am a good person much like whats inherent in the American society money I can save from the government will be better spent on more deserved people because I allocate it not them. My choice to say what I care about more, my choice on how much I care and my choice how long I decide to care. With as many people we have in this country anyone and everyone would be taken care of through private charity. We like to take care of people and if we had our stolen money back we all would be doing just that without the aid of the government.
American Enterprise Institute Stats:
uninsured who are NOT U.S. CITIZENS IS 45% of the 47 million.
Broken down by age, 18 - 24 years old - 29.3% of the 47 million.
25 - 35 years old - 26.9% of the 47 million.
Broken down by salary, $75,000 or more per year - 8.5% of the 47 million.
These were the stats from 2006. Well they were stats, not necessarily "the stats" but from the number you quoted Lion, is a similar percentage breakdown in effect?
My numbers did NOT include non- citizens...I have to say I agree that if they are here illegally then they are on their own healthcare wise...I want universal healthcare for every citizen because if I am going to pay for it, it had better be going to those who are legally obligated to receive it. There are too many points for me to respond so I'll do what I can. My union that I pay into has fought to raised teachers salaries exponentially over the past 5 years...enough, in fact, to attract proper talent to the profession...it worked and I make a comfortable living. A large part of the budget being passed to fund our schools was due largely im part to my fellow union members shutting down about 10 city blocks with a protest a few months ago (it was barely covered by the media). I wrote in a post years ago that I hate unions. I still do. I do not hate unions though, I hate the fact that they have to exist...but they do. My dues are well spent. I can give more examples of what they have done if you would like.
Obama signed a bill that lowered Cobra payments 70% for those who pay one... an example of a.) something he has done, and b.) an interesting route towards universal healthcare. You can thank him later for that letter you got because your Cobra payment probably would have been more like 400 or 500 dollars (more than the average low income HARD WORKING LEGAL CITIZEN could afford)
The tax thing is hard for me to comment on. I suppose I do have a blind faith in government to an extent. I want to believe so badly that our taxes will be put to work for us and I keep voting for people who I think could do that. I believe in a collective effort to build a society. When it comes to all my taxes, I will say I feel very safe all of the time. My taxes pay for that safety. My salary is good and my schools are getting better...those are my taxes. We hired more police in NYC...my taxes paid for that. I moved less than 2 miles from ground zero 3 years after it happened because I believe I am safe...my taxes pay for that.
Who knows. In time i can definitely see myself sharing more of your beliefs, but for now I'll be a socialist :)
To be frank I always find it odd to have to play the frugal role but again I have to question why you're so eager to pay. "If I have to pay" you say and I say why do you have to pay at all.
You mention the Unions and how great of a job they do for you but all I hear you telling me is that you pay them to speak your voice. You believe they are needed but what are they for again? Child labor laws protect against abusive work environments for minors, OSHA protects us from unsafe work environments, and minimum wage laws protect our employers from paying us too little. You think you need the Union because thats what they want you to believe.
You have a government that takes your tax monies to supply a public school system that is over crowded, under funded, falling apart and in many instances a non learning environment for these kids. Thats what the government made with our money. On the other hand we have private schools, funded by charity and tuition fees only charged to the people that attend. The education they provide is second to none.
Don't tell me that you don't sit in the teachers lounge and complain that your books are old or your supplies are low. Or how to put an order through for more supplies is like trekking through the jungles after all the red tape is cut. Schools run by the government are shit in comparison and you should know that better than I. No matter how great a teacher you are, your surroundings and environment will always drag your classes down. Send those kids to a private school that their parents paid to send them too and I promise every one of them will flourish. They'll have new books and all the supplies their little hearts desire. There is no mystery to why those schools are better. It's not the teachers or the kids, it's the business model. They have to provide a service because someone is directly paying for it. A consumer buys what they have to offer for their kids and that school better come correct. A public school however, paid for by the masses, with monies funneled through a system of bureaucracy and fat cats will never be well spent.
As for Cobra, I had read that he lowered the cost of that but this wasn't a subsidized program. The only thing different was that I was reoffered the same package as I was a year ago when I left my job. From what I understand, the bill he passed was only for people laid off but I could be wrong. Either way the numbers are the same as what I offered the first go around.
But the average WORKING low income American has health benefits through their employer and doesn't need Cobra anyway. That system was just one example of an over expensive government intervention.
When I went to school I worked at Staples. I was making about $8 an hour and I had health insurance. It was about 28 bucks a week which was expensive but I had it. Many of the people without insurance now, especially younger people choose not to have it to be cheap. Thats their choice. Anyone can get a job that supplies relatively affordable insurance though, anyone.
And you can stay socialist all you'd like but your new fascist president is going to leave your ass behind. ;)
Teachers will NEVER stop complaining about supplies...even in rich schools. Our schools ARE getting better...they are not falling apart. You are misinformed about the red tape for supplies. Here is how it works: The school has a storage room of supplies...you get those when you want. Whatever we do not have we buy and we get reimbursed up to $150. We simply fill in a chart and staple our receipts. In fact, we get the $150 BEFORE we buy the stuff and we just need to submit the receipts by a certain date. The amount of money is shit, but the process is not bad.
Cobra's are usually for those who were laid off; thats really what they are for.
Since there is no workers bill of rights in the Constitution (which there should be but the government probably thinks thats a little too communist for their taste, we need the union for protection. What is the protection? Well imagine a group of intelligent people numbering in the 100,000's who influence children AND their parents. That has an affect on political campaigns and candidates know that. If a teacher so wanted they could convince a kid and their parents that the government is underfunding them and its a certain politicians fault...this can and has killed campaigns. Our most recent contrat renewal was done about a week before the mayoral election...this is not a coincidence (we got everything we wanted). Is this ethical? No. But when it comes to getting money for schools, I could care less.
And you're not being frugal, you are being careful and cautious with your "me" investment...I dont hold it against you. My neighborhood and workplace is improving (for the most part). If that all starts changing, then I will need to reevaluate what my taxes are paying for.
I didn't phrase what I meant properly as far as your supplies go. But your number only makes my point. $150? When I go to staples for desk supplies I easily spend that on myself. How far does that $150 really go for all of your students though? But "we're" getting better is the MO of every government job or agency or a profession like yours where you're directly tied to the government. Getting better isn't good enough, it should be good already.
But you say you accept the unethical way that strikes and political positions help kids but why? One lesser of two evil politicians gives you want you want temporarily and an entire city has to then call someone their politician not on merit but on how much he scratched the teacher's union back? That to me is bogus and akin to buying an election.
Here's what you or I will need to supply. Find me what the average tax payer pays in taxes for any given area. For security, we'll use Belleville so it doesn't infringe on you too personally.
The average person pays X in property taxes where school funding comes from. Y represents the percentage of that money that goes towards the schools. A represents what the average person pays in the state for income tax and B is the percentage of that goes towards public schooling. E represents what the average citizen pays in federal taxes and F represents how much of that goes towards the schooling. Seeing a trend old friend? That seems like a boat load of money going in for all of this hair brained programs and now you get to fill out a $150 voucher for extra pencils and notebooks?
I'm not going to look up those figures and I would deter you from the same but will I would bet is that it's cheaper to the average working American to pay a yearly tuition to a school rather than what they've paid out in all those taxes they were raped on.
If the schools were private they'd be smaller and more abundant. They'd rent the land and buildings from the cities that own them or buy them from the towns looking for equity in their town. Because they'd want to shine and be the best, they'd hire the best talent and pay the best salaries to teachers that would staff their classrooms. Unions don't protect you, freedom of choice does.
You want to be a teacher, thats admirable. You wanting the government to supply you with a great job while you feel you need protection from them is bogus.
The Union told you that you need 100000 people to shut down the worlds greatest cities school system for 10 days. Consumerism and Capitalism tells me that all you'd need is a few angry parents at a PTA meeting threatening to send their kids to the other private school down the street because they offer better bang for their buck. The board of directors would ensure that change or their business collapses only to be filled by another business that now gets a chance to do better. Thats real change and thats not a system complacent on the fact that "well they're getting better".
Now you did say that your school isn't falling apart which I'm happy to hear but you're only one teacher in one school. Talk to some of the people we grew up that now teach in the schools that we attended and they'll tell you the exact opposite.
You're right though, I'm sure all teachers complain in all schools they work in but thats the nature of the beast. Everyone complains everywhere, my point was... what is the depth of what they're complaining about? There are real concerns in a public school system private schools simply don't worry about.
So off topic but it's just like healthcare. We're scared into believing we need it and it's our right but never look at the alternative or what it costs us for our government to "supply" it to us and how bad a job they do.
This is unrelated but I read this article by Michael Moore about GM and was wondering how you feel about it as an ex GM man.
www.huffingtonpost.com/michael-moore/goodbye-gm_b_209603.html
I think it's all bogus, as I suspected I would.
Michael Moore for starters is making assumptions that GM owns all the plants and all the associated companies to be effected by the bankruptcy. GM only a few months ago finally bought the building their headquartered in. For the passed 20 years they had been leasing the space. This is the same for much of the land they use and factories they use. They're an automobile company through and through, not a real estate company like McDonald's which operates under a hamburger slinging front.
The rest of what he says he has no right to say. Not to say that his ideas aren't good but he still has no right to say them or ask the President to implement his ideas. Forcing a company to produce something is bullshit plain and simple. Whether the product is good or not, useful or not, or profitable or not is up to a company and the consumer that supports them. The government has no right to mandate that.
To use the factories as windmills and power plants is retarded. Where is the data that even says the area is feasible for it. Last I checked, government land and protected areas are already the best places for windmills but we're not allowed to use those?
This whole GM thing pisses me off not because of the company, because it's one giant smoke screen. The government isn't trying to save anything other than their own power. It's going to take at least $50 Billion dollars to fix GM. It's going to take the same to fix California!? GM employs 40,000 people yet insures over 1,000,000.
You're watching another big government and union merger fucking the American public. GM never had a problem turning a profit, look at what they do in China. The problem they have is they're 100 year old company that had employees work for them for 30 years and retire to live another 30. Because of the unions these people are protected when honestly, they should have still worked.
Look at the towns and the cities. Become a cop at 21 and retire after 20 or 30 years. You're 40 and 50 years old yet you're paid to the day you die and given health insurance because the unions said this was fair.
There is a point where things are too fair and we shouldn't be punished for means that you say were acceptable like political posturing and muscling. They're fucking us and Michael Moore just blows the smoke out of his ass that helps fog the view. More pollution comes from how much meat we ingest as a nation versus the combustible engine he talks so much shit about. Look at the size of the man, perhaps he should lay off a few steaks so the rest of us don't have to spend 40 grand for a shit box Prius.
First of all I want to be clear about my thoughts about the GM government ownership...it stinks. I do not agree with it because it is a company, a corporation and I don't think we should have yet another government run corporation.
In regards to the Union, that IS GM's fault. They could have told the Union to go fuck themselves during the more recent contract negotiations, dealt with bad publicity for a year or so, hired scabs, and just dealt with it. Instead, they bow down to the power of the Union without much of a fight. You can not blame a group of employees for breaking a company when the company let them do what they wanted.
I still feel, Froochie, that you're in denial about the fact that GM did not evolve their product to adapt to a changing industry landscape. I know GM had hybrids and cars and trucks that have flex fuel technology. I know they are doing well in China because china doesnt give a shit about emissions standards. They also care little for workers rights. But while everything was getting smaller, sleeker, and m ore effecient around them, they just sat there doing nothing. i have to say of all the parts of the article, that is Moore's strongest point that I agree with the most. As i mentioned; during my Enterprise days I noticed the same thing and I worked with many different brands of car for 5 years. I saw new chevy cavaliers come out then turn into cars like the Bolt and each time I was less and less impressed. In the next delivery I would get a Mazda 3 which would blow my customers away and corollas and civics that would last forever and give me no strife while getting calls form customers on the highways or in the mountains with a GM vehicle with the dashboard lit up like a fucking christmas tree. Side view mirror glue weakening within the first month or two...etc etc... They are a business that failed to evolve and went extinct here. I hope its better in China.
First point we agree on the broader sense so no need to further delve.
Second point, GM couldn't say fuck you to the Unions even up to their latest negotiations because the government thru the legislative wouldn't allow them to. Time after time they sided with the unions and even forced GM to do as the Canadian union wanted from the. You can say to say screw it and hire scabs but when the government physically wont allow you to, what are you going to do?
And third, the point of rescaling and retooling is a moot point. Remember it's manufacturing, GM doesn't do most of it, it's outsourced. Just like all the car companies. Delco supplies the battery and Michelin sends in the tires, Radios from Bose etc. The physical metal of a car is a technicality that all of the companies compensate for and adjust. While you say GM should have been making smaller cars, Toyota and Honda were trying to build them bigger. So who is right, the market... thats who. Honda bought the design for the Izuzu Rodeo and sold it as a Passport. Now they're built by Honda for Acura as well and the trucks are enormous. And people still go to Chevy and buy Suburbans because thats the size they say they need.
And all car companies have gremlins, it's just the name of mass production. The Cobalt you compare to the Civic is a cheaper car by a few thousand when you compare package to package and the warranty is twice as long and more comprehensive. You heard and saw war stories but I know how people drive American cars with their disgust and I know the privileged way they drive a Toyota. Of course they were better in the long run, its we in the used market have known about for years.
To say that GM hasn't improved their line though is a flat out lie. Maybe you werent impressed with Cobalt but the fit and finish on that car, the efficiency and driveability were all on far better than what the Cavalier ever brought to the table. No they're not as nice as a Mazda 3 but fully loaded to fully loaded or base to base, they're not as expensive either...
Believe me when I say, when I speak about cars I speak about them as someone that has a real passion for them. When I speak about GM I speak about them, not as share holder or as a former employee but as someone that works in the industry and knows what all the companies do and have the burden of. The Chinese market cares because they can afford the gas and they get the efficiency that we pay to develop here.
And remember, I don't consider the Union the voice of the laborer. You said I blame the workers and I don't, I blame the people that speak for them.
Me as a shareholder got nothing when the stock tanked. This effects everyone that had much much more invested with them. I was fortunate and only lost about 10k, others lost hundreds of thousands in real retirement that they had saved for.
If you don't think the Unions are fucking us with the governments aid why does the UAW now own 20% stake in the new company that forms?
this all reminds me of the dr. suess story 'the zax' except instead of watching a city building around them i watch my freedoms disappear as we quickly become part of a socialist society headed toward fascism.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sfI9e4BX0lU
I agree 100% Zebra and I'll even start saying fascist now that my Italian cousins are writing me telling me how pleased they are with this new "change". They believe Mussolini was a hero to explain their mindset. Now that Government Motors is in da' house I'm pretty sure we can start using the term Fascism much more liberally as it arrival seems apparent to me too.
I agree 100% Zebra and I'll even start saying fascist now that my Italian cousins are writing me telling me how pleased they are with this new "change". They believe Mussolini was a hero to explain their mindset. Now that Government Motors is in da' house I'm pretty sure we can start using the term Fascism much more liberally as it arrival seems apparent to me too.
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